Category Archives: NFN Events

David Boulton’s talk tonight – don’t miss it!

Viewing the video on Wittgenstein posted by Rhiannon Grant in the course materials for ’Nontheist Approaches to Religious Language’ led me to view 2 short video clips about Wittgenstein on youtube from Don Cupitt’s 1984 TV series and then to listen to this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00036kp Giles Fraser (1984 – ‘a passionate atheist’ – later Canon Chancellor of St Paul’s Cathedral – thanks to Cupitt perhaps) on Don Cupitt and the TV series ’The Sea of Faith’. (28 minute radio programme). A very interesting and, I think, fairly balanced assessment of Don Cupitt’s work.
Don Cupitt was one of our speakers at NFN Conference in 2012 (10 years ago!) and a post from 2017 (Five years on) says:
“Our 3 speakers then were Philip Gross, Quaker poet from Wales; Don Cupitt from the ‘Sea of Faith’ and James Riemermann from Twin Cities Friends Meeting, St. Paul, Minnesota. I (Trevor) remember this conference very well and how James’ presentation of ‘coming out’ as a ‘non-theist’ in his meeting moved me to tears. A search for ‘Riemermann’ on the Twin Cities’ website reveals a multitude of papers including this interesting piece on Theological Diversity from 2009.”

Giles Fraser is an interesting maverick, perhaps a little like Cupitt, apparently voted Conservative (for Brexit) in 2019 though saying at about the same time: “all my political energy has been a reaction to Margaret Thatcher. I hated and continue to hate Thatcherism with a passion that remains undimmed”, and having resigned as Canon Chancellor in 2011 as a result of refusing to sanction using force to remove Occupy London (remember that?) from outside the cathedral.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giles_Fraser
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Cupitt

That’s a warm up, I hope, for our 10th Creative Conversation presented tonight by David Boulton on ‘Friends and the Secular World’. Don’t miss it!

 

Upcoming events

I mentioned at the AGM on Thursday (17th February) that some nontheist Friends might be interested in the Quaker Universalists’ Conference at Woodbrooke and online from 1-3April.
Details can be found here: https://qug.org.uk/conference-2020-health-and-healing/

Friends might also be interested to look at the newly formed Quaker Truth and Integrity Group (next meeting for QTIG members on 23rd February and Zoom Conference from 25 April): https://quakertruth.org/calendar/

Courses at Woodbrooke which should certainly be of interest to nontheist Friends have already been mentioned here.

Trevor

Update and Courses at Woodbrooke

The audio file for John Richter’s talk has now been added to the homepage. There’s a minute or two missing at the beginning and unfortunately the recording quality is only fair. If we are able to add a text or transcript later we may do so.

Woodbrooke has some upcoming (online) courses which may be of particular interest to nontheist Friends – they might make a nice follow-up to John’s talk!

Nontheist Approaches to Religious Language
28 February 2022 – 27 March 2022
Tutor: Rhiannon Grant
£45.00

Why Attend Meeting for Worship if you Don’t Believe in God?
12 April 2022 – 12 April 2022
19:30 – 21:00
Tutor: Rhiannon Grant
Pay as you are led ( £ )

Are Quakers Christian?
26 April 2022 – 26 April 2022
19:30 – 21:00
Tutor: Rhiannon Grant
Pay as you are led ( £ )

Details of all these and a few other courses can be found here:
https://www.woodbrooke.org.uk/product-category/exploring-quakerism

I put the following in the comments this morning:
Whilst we’re talking about spirituality, here’s an interesting article (terrifying?) on Xi Jinping thought and the politicisation of spirituality in China:
https://unherd.com/thepost/chinas-new-plan-to-fill-the-religion-shaped-hole/

John Richter’s talk – some thoughts on the challenge

John Richter’s talk on Thursday evening did not feature his work as an artist but proved to be a provoking challenge to Quakers today, non-theist or not, to perhaps change the way we approach things if we are not (in terms of membership) to continue in terminal decline.
John’s ideas might have been unconventional after 60 years a Quaker, perhaps still feeling ‘On the Edge of Quakers’, but drew out a lively conversation of different or opposing views amongst those present (about 82 for the talk).
Our own William P(urser) closed the conversation at the very end with this from a somewhat earlier William P(enn):

“True godliness don’t turn men out of the world, but enables them to live better in it, and excites their endeavours to mend it… Christians should keep the helm and guide the vessel to its port; not meanly steal out at the stern of the world and leave those that are in it without a pilot to be driven by the fury of evil times upon the rock or sand of ruin”. (QF&P 23.02) William Penn 1682.

One of John’s suggestions (in relation to his own somewhat declining meeting at Wells-next-the-Sea (Norfolk, England)) was, weather permitting, to leave the doors open so anyone might wander in during the meeting and for people to join or leave the meeting at times to suit themselves – a practice also followed by Friends 340 years ago and indeed in the Sikh Gurudwara today. (In both cases much longer ‘meetings for worship’ – perhaps 3-4 hours amongst 17th century Quakers and sunrise to sunset amongst Sikhs).

Meetings often have a copy of the Bible, Quaker Faith and Practice (The book of Christian discipline of the Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) in Britain – the ‘big red book’), Advices and Queries (the ‘little red book’ being Chapter 1 of QF&P) and sometimes other books or leaflets on the table, with a vase of flowers, in the centre of the meeting. Piers thought that visitors or newcomers to a meeting find this off-putting if the Bible and ‘Christian discipline’ have negative associations for them. But, we are the Religious Society of Friends and there were contributions from those who disliked the associations of ‘Spiritual’ whilst others might want to emphasise ’the Society’ (of which you can be a member – ’socio’ in Spanish) at the expense of ‘Religious’. Tom Shakespeare the 2020 Swarthmore Lecturer (https://www.woodbrooke.org.uk/research/swarthmore-lectures/) expressed a preference for ‘Religious not Spiritual’, doubtful about those who say they are ’Spiritual not religious’ and the associations of ’Spiritual’ with ‘New Age’ spirituality and perhaps ’Spiritualism’.

However, Jesus said: Mark 3.28-9 “Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven for their sins and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin” (New Revised Standard Version).
And as the Nontheist Friends Network, our online conference in 2021 was entitled ’That’s the Spirit – Dimensions of Spirituality’
(https://nontheist-quakers.org.uk/events/thats-the-spirit-dimensions-of-spirituality-nfn-conference-2021/ ) which included an impassioned talk on Humanist (or secular) Spirituality.by Andrew Copson of Humanists UK. See also https://nontheist-quakers.org.uk/articles/the-faith-of-a-quaker-humanist/#Spirituality

John posed two questions at the end of his talk for the group to consider:
1 What is the purpose of Quakers?
a John’s 4-word answer was “to explore religion together” and
b He asked us to respond with our four-word answers.
2 To flourish as a society we need to make ourselves meaningful to ourselves and to people who might join. What do we need to change?

Howard answered the first with (5 words perhaps) “to have our answers questioned”. Whilst this was drawn from some Quaker pamphlet or notice and makes a nice ‘sound-bite’, I strongly suspect that many would like their questions answered too – I know I would.

John especially wanted to emphasise the open-ness of Quakers and the open ended search for truth which has evolved from the 17th century when Friends felt they had the ‘Truth’ and while this latter claim might still be true in terms of ‘the spirit within’, the ‘inner light’, the ‘Christ within’ and so on, nonetheless we recognise that there are different kinds of truth (for example scientific truth, historical truth, spiritual truth, ‘the facts’, your truth and my truth – what is true for you is not necessarily true for me, and so on) and Friends ask ‘Are you open to new light , from whatever source it may come?’ (Advices and Queries no. 7) (Some Friends question ‘from whatever source’?).

So we see that your answers may indeed be questioned but our ‘queries’ often constitute implicit ‘advice’. We can question and seek but we can also find, or perhaps that’s ‘discern’ in ‘quakerspeak’. We no longer (as Quakers did in the 17th century) go out of our way to attack or challenge ‘Puritans’ (Evangelicals?) or Papists and indeed many of us now find wisdom from the (Western) Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions too, even if we rather specialise in being unorthodox or heretical. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy for a good overview of heresy). The great majority of Quakers in the world, in the Americas and Africa in particular, are members of evangelical or programmed meetings with quite different worship practices and beliefs from most ‘unprogrammed’ Quakers in meetings like BYM. Friends World Committee for Consultation (FWCC – https://fwcc.world/about-us/) by and large succeeds in uniting all the different sorts of Quakers into one ‘family’ with a common heritage and willingness to see beyond differences and work together to ‘mend the world’.

John had himself suggested some ideas for change in his talk and these included the above-mentioned openness (even open doors) and focussing on being a society of Friends rather than a church (building or meeting) and not making silence our creed – that is to say emphasising the importance of spoken ministry and attentive ‘listening’ to what might come to us during the silence. Other Friends present emphasised the importance of friendship and being meetings of friends – doing things together, socialising together as well as to ‘live better in the world, and be excited in their endeavours to mend it’. Whilst there were disagreements and differences of emphasis, many of these came down to different language: spiritual not religious or v.v, society v. church and meeting v. church. The development of language about ‘God’ – or ‘whatever you call it’ is particularly demanding: God is real or a metaphor, ‘theist’ or ’nontheist’ might be a continuum rather than either/or – see, for example, ‘God, words and us’ – https://nontheist-quakers.org.uk/?s=God%2C+words+and+us

Whether you were present at John’s talk or not, please let us have your comments and thoughts below!

 

NFN Quaker Meeting and Creative conversation 3 February 2022

Dear Friend,
We hope this note finds you well in the New Year!  We welcome you to our next Quaker Meeting and Creative Conversation on Thursday evening, 3 February at 7PM UK time, by Zoom.

John Richter will share his presentation, On the Edge of Quakers.

John writes:

There is a balance between the comfort of the familiar, hanging on to the way things have always been, as against the need to innovate, adapt and change.   Quakers are a Society, not a Religion, with members who have applied to join.   So we must not allow our Meeting Houses to become Churches or our creed to become silence.   We must benefit from being able to talk openly – both at looking inward at ourselves and outward at the world.
Additional information about our QM+CC and recordings of past CC presenters can be found on our website.
If you are interested in attending and have not registered, please email clerk@nontheist-quakers.org.uk. to register and request the zoom link

If you previously registered, there is no need to re-register, you are on the list.  You will automatically receive Zoom links to this and subsequent Meetings, approximately one week before each Meeting.  We ask that you please do not share the Zoom link with interested Friends, but encourage them to email the Clerk (clerk@nontheist-quakers.org.uk) to register. You may unregister/unsubscribe at any time by replying to this email address.

In Friendship,
The QM+CC Working group (Gisela Creed, John Senior, William Purser, and Kiera Faber)
Nontheist Friends Network

NFN AGM 2022 – a message from our Clerk

Our clerk Tim Regan and the Steering Group issued the following notice to members by email last week.

We are planning to hold the next AGM of the Nontheist Friends Network on Zoom at 7:00 UK time on Thursday the 17th of February, i.e. interleaved between our monthly Creative Conversations. I hope you can come along. The provisional agenda for the AGM is:

  • Reports
    • Clerk
    • Treasurer
    • Website
    • Working Groups
      • MfW CC
      • Newsletter
      • Conference
      • Outreach
  • Steering Group (SG)
    • Gisela standing down
    • Call for new SG members
  • New and continuing working groups
  • Conference 2022
  • Britain Yearly Meeting 2022
  • Quaker Faith & Practice Revision

Email Tim (clerk@nontheist-quakers.org.uk) if you would like to receive the Zoom link.

The minutes of this AGM can now be found here: https://nontheist-quakers.org.uk/events/minutes-from-our-2022-agm/

(N.B. As previous AGMs took place on 30th March 2019 and 9th December 2020, it is assumed the Steering Group or the AGM will decide if this AGM is for 2021—and we need another for 2022—or whether this AGM is to stand for another 12 months.)

Script of Piers’ talk 6 January

Piers has now let us have his script and it is well worth reading. He apologises for any short-comings in the sound of his talk and which the autoscript struggled with at times.

As I thought when listening to the talk, it is quite poetic and Piers has presented it in more or less blank verse with punctuation but no capitals. (Notice the internal rhymes and rhythm). If you read it to yourself it sounds quite like a ‘rap’ – and maybe ‘a wrap’.  I thought that on Thursday night but struggled to hear it whilst also having an ‘unstable internet connection’.

Some people thought the talk was a bit ‘black and white’ or a bit one-sided but it doesn’t come across like that (to me anyway) when you read it. Perhaps Piers is a little uncritical of China but his point there really is that we are exposed to a one-sided view and propaganda in our own media. (But I imagine Piers’ suggestion that the Dalai Lama is in ‘the pay of the CIA’ is the view of Chinese state propaganda which is (just/almost?) as nefarious as the CIA.)

I have added the script as text (html with a couple of hypertext links) to the original page about Piers talk here and the pdf is here. The audio file can be found in the usual place by scrolling down on the home page.

Please add your comments on the talk below here or on the previous post or wherever is convenient. (Don’t forget to select ‘notify me of comments/replies’ if you want to get a reply or follow the conversation)

NFN Quaker meeting and Creative Conversation 6 January 2022

Dear Friends,

Thank you for registering for our Quaker Meeting and Creative Conversation, organized by the NFN, UK.

To open the New Year Piers Maddox will share his presentation, Path of rightness in time of civilizational change, on Thursday 6 January at 7PM UK time by Zoom.
Please arrive early, as the Meeting will start promptly at 7PM.  The Zoom Room opens at 6:45PM.

Email the Clerk (clerk@nontheist-quakers.org.uk) to register if you have not done so before.

Format:
• Zoom Room opens at 6:45PM, please arrive early.
• 7PM: Welcome and Quaker Meeting: approximately 20 minutes for quietly gathering ourselves and connecting.
• Creative Conversation: up to 20 minutes for presentation or raising a question.
• Open Discussion: up to 40 minutes, in the Main Zoom room, for creative exchanges, expressions, and reactions.
• Conclusion: ending with a few moments gathered in silence.
• Duration:1hr:20m – 2hr (For interested Friends, we will leave the Zoom room open after the Meeting closes for casual conversations)

You will automatically receive Zoom links to subsequent Meetings, approximately one week before each Meeting. There is no need to re-register. We ask that you please do not share the Zoom link with interested Friends, but encourage them to email the Clerk (clerk@nontheist-quakers.org.uk) to register. You may unregister/unsubscribe at any time by replying to this email address.

See you soon.

In Friendship,
The QM+CC Working group (Gisela Creed, John Senior, William Purser, and Kiera Faber)
Nontheist Friends Network

NFN Quaker meeting and Creative Conversation 2 December 2021

Dear Friends,

Thank you for registering for our Quaker Meeting and Creative Conversation, organized by the NFN, UK.

Kiera Faber will share her presentation, Drawing Silence in Art, on Thursday 2 December at 7PM UK time by Zoom.
Please arrive early, as the Meeting will start promptly at 7PM.  The Zoom Room opens at 6:45PM.

Email the Clerk (clerk@nontheist-quakers.org.uk) to register if you have not done so before.

Format:
• Zoom Room opens at 6:45PM, please arrive early.
• 7PM: Welcome and Quaker Meeting: approximately 20 minutes for quietly gathering ourselves and connecting.
• Creative Conversation: up to 20 minutes for presentation or raising a question.
• Open Discussion: up to 40 minutes, in the Main Zoom room, for creative exchanges, expressions, and reactions.
• Conclusion: ending with a few moments gathered in silence.
• Duration:1hr:20m – 2hr (For interested Friends, we will leave the Zoom room open after the Meeting closes for casual conversations)

You will automatically receive Zoom links to subsequent Meetings, approximately one week before each Meeting. There is no need to re-register. We ask that you please do not share the Zoom link with interested Friends, but encourage them to email the Clerk (clerk@nontheist-quakers.org.uk) to register. You may unregister/unsubscribe at any time by replying to this email address.

See you soon.

In Friendship,
The QM+CC Working group (Gisela Creed, John Senior, William Purser, and Kiera Faber)
Nontheist Friends Network

NFN Quaker meeting and Creative Conversation 4 November 2021

Dear Friends,
Thank you for registering for our Quaker Meeting and Creative Conversation, organized by the NFN, UK.

tom kunesh will share his presentation, When non-theism isn’t enough: a marxian moral imperative, on Thursday 4 November at 7PM UK time by Zoom.
Please arrive early, as the Meeting will start promptly at 7PM.  The Zoom Room opens at 6:45PM.

If you have not already registered, email clerk@nontheist-quakers.org.uk to do so.

Format:
• Zoom Room opens at 6:45PM, please arrive early.
• 7PM: Welcome and Quaker Meeting: approximately 20 minutes for quietly gathering ourselves and connecting.
• Creative Conversation: up to 20 minutes for presentation or raising a question.
• Open Discussion: up to 40 minutes, in the Main Zoom room, for creative exchanges, expressions, and reactions.
• Conclusion: ending with a few moments gathered in silence.
• Optional Friendly chat: up to 20 minutes for socializing in small group breakout rooms
• Duration:1hr:45m – 2hr (For interested Friends, we will leave the Zoom room open after the Meeting closes for casual conversations)

You will automatically receive Zoom links to subsequent Meetings, approximately one week before each Meeting. There is no need to re-register. We ask that you please do not share the Zoom link with interested Friends, but encourage them to email the Clerk (clerk@nontheist-quakers.org.uk) to register. You may unregister/unsubscribe at any time by replying to this email address.

See you soon.

In Friendship,
The QM+CC Working group (Gisela Creed, John Senior, William Purser, and Kiera Faber)
Nontheist Friends Network