Tag Archives: David Boulton

NFN November 2018 Newsletter

The November newsletter with our latest news, book reviews, details of the 2019 conference, short articles as well as news from nontheist Friends in America has now been added to the website.

NFN members and others who have signed up to receive this will have had it in their email a week or so ago.

As with all the other newsletters, please see under ‘Articles –  Newsletters’ above.

“Theism vs Non-Theism” or Quaker Spirit?

I recently came across this post on Sam Barnett-Cormack’s  (Quaker) Openings blogspot website: https://quakeropenings.blogspot.com/2018/01/theism-vs-non-theism.html and felt it worth drawing attention to it here.

(In the original version of THIS post, I credited the said post to Rhiannon Grant, perhaps because her name appeared below in a comment. I have now corrected the error here.)

The piece is quite wordy (and Sam says “Verbosity is not a virtue, but a tendency towards excessive brevity can do a surprising amount of damage.”) but tries to get to grips with, as one might say, ‘the heart of the matter’.

His final two paragraphs include “We are not contending with one another, whatever the ongoing disagreement-in-public between Boulton and Guiton might suggest.”; “Let us be Friends, in truth and not just as the traditional code term for our faith in-group.”; and concludes with the one line “For the sake of all that is good and true, let us be Friends.”

But he also says “We can explain our experiences and understanding of the Divine without it being an attempt to convince or exclude others.” and whilst this may be true, I certainly know ‘non-theist’ Friends who will have no truck with the ‘Divine’.

But then again, that is surely just a matter of ‘words’ – isn’t it?

How do Friends, Quakers, theists, non-theists or whatever, feel about ‘Spirit’? Is this ‘Holy’? Is spirit or inspiration just a matter of breath? Is the Inner Light Winstanley’s ‘light of pure reason’ or something else altogether? The spirit of Christ? Human spirit?
Quaker Spirit? (as in the newly arrived website http://www.quakerspirit.com/view/ministryofthemoment/wedoneedgod.aspx )

The last mentioned spirit (page) ends with “And, whilst we are talking of it; in the light of the BBC question “So what is the difference between Quakerism and Mindfulness today?” Should not a simple answer suffice, e.g. Quakerism has at its root a belief in the Divine i.e. God-centric, whereas Mindfulness has at its root “Knowing directly what is going on inside and outside ourselves, moment by moment.” i.e self-centric.

You may want to know the provenance of that last website. It seems to be an initiative, possibly individual and personal, of Stephen Feltham from the Friends Fellowship of Healing and says “Quaker Spirit is an initiative to gather Friends with the sole purpose of experiencing the spiritual and mystical ethos of Quakerism.”

Elsewhere on the site (under Modern Quakers) we find “Your teacher is inside you, don’t look outside. It will teach you wherever you are.” (quoting Rex Ambler paraphrasing George Fox) and “The light is what enables you to see. This light enlightens you, it shows you when you do something wrong. (For me, this is the light of awareness, mindfulness)” and “We believe that we all have an inward teacher. This inward teacher can be found in the still silence. This inward teacher is “that of God” (or whatever name you wish to call that which is beyond all names, I like the term True Self). ” (Self-centric?).

So God (the word, or the Word?) is problematic for some Friends; ‘Divine’ perhaps more so for some of those same Friends. What about ‘Spirit’? The Quaker Spirit website lists ‘Other Quaker groups’ as Friends Fellowship of Healing, Quaker Fellowship for Afterlife Studies, The Kindlers, Quaker Universalist Group, Experiment with Light Network, Quaker Quest, and Quaker Arts Network, and it is implicitly clear that these groups are seen as fellow travellers as it were. I’m not sure that all of those groups would accept the association but can see the point about “the sole purpose of experiencing the spiritual and mystical ethos of Quakerism.”

That’s seven groups implicitly associated and a page about a proposed Quaker Spirit Gathering (for summer 2021?) says: “When first distributed to our ‘Other Groups’ a very encouraging set of replies was received. Read them here.”  There are eight replies but none of them is explicitly associated with any of those seven groups.

I can’t help wondering if this is an ‘inclusive Spirit’ or an exclusive one?

Then: Mark 3:28-29 “Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven for their sins and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”

and Luke 12:10 10 “And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.”

or in the non-canonical (and clearly heretical) Gospel of Thomas:
44. Jesus said, “Whoever blasphemes against the Father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven, either on earth or in heaven.”

In the end then, what Friends think, believe or experience of the ‘spirit’ might be a matter of some significance.

The Quakers are right. We don’t need God.

An article in The Guardian (online) by Simon Jenkins under this title, dated 4 May 2018, has brought many more visitors to our NFN site – in fact linking to an article by David Boulton which references a 2013 survey cited by Ben Pink Dandelion. Perhaps we should return the compliment and put a link to the Guardian article here!

Some Friends, including ‘non-theists’, might think this title is a travesty of the Quaker position and Yearly Meeting decision to revise Quaker Faith and Practice. (Link edited at 22.00 Central European Time to be more useful on a mobile device!)

Simon Jenkins writes ‘I am not a Quaker or religious, but I have been to Quaker meetings, usually marriages or funerals, and found them deeply moving’.  As this member and attender for 8 years (Trevor Bending) has so far been to only one Quaker marriage (my  own) and no Quaker funerals (yet), we must assume that Simon has a considerable number of Quaker friends or contacts.  In any event, his article is much more interesting than the provocative title and well worth reading.

I think some further consideration or re-consideration of what we might mean by ‘non-theism’ is now due in the light of the YM decision and the publication of ‘God, Words and Us‘.

It would be wonderfully appreciated if some of our NFN members, Followers, and Friends were to append their comments here!

Big Questions TV programme BBC 1 this Sunday 10am.

(Note from David Boulton)

Just a quick note to say the BBC are going ahead with The Big Questions TV programme this coming Sunday (10am on BBC 1), asking whether religion needs God, with particular reference to the theist/nontheist dialogue among Quakers, and the decision to revise the Red Book made at YM last weekend.

David and Rhiannon Grant have been asked to participate.

I look forward to it if we can get it in Spain just before we do our local (2 of us) meeting for worship.

You might also be interested in this post from the ‘jolly quaker’ (Mark Russ) brought to my attention by twitter.

2018 Conference Reports

I have prepared summary reports of the presentations by Linda Murgatroyd, David Boulton and Harvey Gillman here.  (Each runs to 3 or 4 pages). The opening paragraphs below link to those reports (in Word).  Trevor

Linda Murgatroyd’s presentation. (Friday evening 9th March 2018)

Responding to Change.
Under this title, Linda, of Kingston & Wandsworth AM and co-clerk of the Quaker Arts Network, developed an extended metaphor of gardening to explore the growth, development, decline and rejuvenation of different aspects of Quakers in Britain today and in particular used David Holmgren’s 12 design principles for Permaculture to structure a consideration of possible futures for Quakers in Britain.

Notes for her talk have been sent to conference participants but Linda didn’t feel they were in a form that was suitable for publication on the website.

David Parlett has summarised the talk for his article in The Friend as follows:
“Linda adopted a metaphorical approach by considering ways in which we could work towards a desirable position in 2032 by following the 12 principles of permaculture, defined as “thinking tools, that when used together, allow us to creatively re-design our environment and our behaviour in a world of less energy and resources”. She backed this by drawing attention to statistics on trends in religion in Britain and Jennifer Hampton’s British Quaker Survey: examining religious beliefs and practices in the 21st Century.”

Read more here: Summary report of Linda Murgatroyd’s NFN presentation (This is now a pdf edited by Linda replacing earlier Word version).

David Boulton’s presentation. (Saturday morning 10th March 2018)

‘Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow: – What our past tells us about our future
Preview of a talk to an Open Quaker conference, March 10 2032’
David addressed the 2018 NFN conference at Woodbroke with a ‘preview’ of the talk that might be given (by him?) at a Quaker conference on March 10th 2032.
In part this flash forward was looking back at 2005 and the years upto 2018 and beyond to 2032.
He begins ’28 years ago, in 2005’ with a study published then by George Fox University, Oregon, USA predicting that the last British Quaker (probably female) would turn out the lights of the last BYM meeting house in 2032.

Read more here: Summary report of David Boulton’s presentation
(Well, not so much a précis as a butchering of David’s fine writing and talk so, especially if you weren’t there, do read the original attached here in Word format.)

Harvey Gillman’s presentation. (Saturday morning 10th March 2018)

Why should the Religious Society of Friends have a Future?
Taking his turn after Linda and David, Harvey offered us his vision, not at variance with those foreseen by Linda and David but presented in a very different style.

David Parlett has summarised Harvey’s talk for his article in The Friend as follows:
“Later, delegates were stimulated – one might say enraptured – by Harvey Gillman, whose (literally) enthusiastic writings will be well known to readers of The Friend. Harvey declared himself to be an ‘unstructured’ thinker and speaker, and proved the value of this style in suggesting that our future will be the eventual outcome of living always in the here and now. The most important element in our spiritual life should be the ‘WOW factor’; the truly sacred is always ‘This moment, this place, these people’.” (emphasis added here).

Looking at what Harvey has written elsewhere and in the piece that follows that he read to us on Sunday morning, we might imagine him abbreviating this further to WE (or You, Us), HERE, NOW!

Read more here: Summary report of Harvey Gillman’s presentation

On Sunday morning, Michael Wright led a workshop on using ‘God, words and Us’ in local meetings and his notes are now reproduced here:
Michael Wright’s notes  for using God, Words and Us. (Word.docx)

Conference and AGM 9-11 March 2018 at Woodbrooke

The conference is now just 4 weeks away!
I have received a note about the AGM from Gisela Creed our NFN Clerk:

Notice of Annual General Meeting

 To be held on Saturday 10th of March 2018 at 4.30 pm at Woodbrooke Quaker Study Centre during the NFN annual residential conference.

Draft Agenda
1. Minutes of last Meeting (26/03/2017)
2. Clerk’s report
3. Financial report and accounts
4. Website update
5. Newsletter report
6. Appointment of Steering group and office holders
7. Any other business

Please notify Gisela Creed, clerk, if you would like to raise any further business:
jgcreed (at) btinternet.com (Replace the (at) with the usual @ symbol – no spaces!)

All NFN members are invited to attend the AGM, and Conference attendees who are not NFN members (please join at the Conference!) are welcome to attend the AGM as observers.

We all look forward to the conference and enjoying our stay at Woodbrooke

Trevor (for the Steering Group).

New Quakerism?

In a post on 27th July (https://nontheist-quakers.org.uk/2017/07/27/meeting-your-maker/) I wrote:
And so, bearing in mind all the excellent (and personal and idiosyncratic) Quaker blogs out there, I thought I’d put a spanner in the works or a cat among the pigeons here by posting something personal in the hope of stimulating (provoking) further non- theist discussion.

As we approach the season of the birth of Jesus and later (in March) our conference considering the future of Quakerism, I felt it was time for another spanner or cat.

In an interesting article in The Young Quaker (magazine of Young Friends General Meeting) for October 2017 (page 7), Laurence Hall writes about the Seeds of a new Quakerism. He says ‘In essence the emerging New Quakerism is deeply aligned with movements that are now reshaping the world around us.’

Being myself blissfully unaware of the ‘New Quakerism’, I turned, as one does, to Google and whilst there were many results related to ‘Quakerism’ and ‘New’, there was only one (the first) which seemed to relate to a ‘New Quakerism’ as such.

That link was to ‘We need a new Quakerism‘ on the blog of Hye Sung Francis  who styles himself ‘an anti-capitalist pentecostal quaker’.  He writes:’It seems to me that many Friends, even those who consider themselves “convinced,” are hungry for more than what the Society has to offer. We keep coming back to the same point: we desperately need to re-imagine Quakerism.’ and later: ‘Without that conviction that God reigns and that God will reign, only the empty forms of Quakerism persist. That is the way of death.’ Is that what our conference will consider?

On his blog, Hye Sung Francis has a number of other rather interesting posts: ‘Jesus, a Failed Revolutionary‘ reminds me of David Boulton’s ‘Who on Earth was Jesus‘ and the fact that I haven’t yet got round to reading ‘Jesus the Terrorist‘. In that post, Francis writes:
There’s another lesson here: the destruction of the systems and authorities on this earth and the realization of God’s kingdom cannot be accomplished by one person. Christ’s ministry wasn’t a one-man show. It can only be realized through his people, through his body. Through us.’

Francis’s most recent post, ‘On Being Friends with Jesus‘, makes many interesting points to ponder including the wonderful “Any theology that values God above people is false.”

I hope non-theist Friends (and others) will follow the hypertext links above, both to the many excellent articles in The Young Quaker and to Hye Sung Francis, and consider how these viewpoints relate to non-theism among Friends, our forthcoming Conference and to ‘God, Words and Us’.

I look forward to your feedback and comments and, I hope, those of younger Friends, whether non-theist, Godly, ‘anti-capitalist pentecostal’ or whatever. We do indeed need to move outside our ‘elderly, white, middle-class’ comfort zone, where that applies to us, and perhaps all other comfort zones too!

 

‘God, words and us’

God, words and us‘ is the title of a new 100 page book from Quaker books, edited by Helen Rowlands which summarises the findings of the ‘think-tank’ set up by the Revision Preparation Group (RPG) of Meeting for Sufferings to consider some of the issues prior to any possible revision of Quaker Faith and Practice.

NFN’s David Boulton and Michael Wright were part of the think-tank in a personal capacity (ie. Not representing NFN).

Here they offer a synopsis of the new book (Michael Wright) (pdf) and a succinct review (David Boulton) (Word.doc).

David will be one of our three speakers at our 2018 conference and Michael Wright will lead a discussion of the book at the conference on the Sunday morning.

You may also like to read what Rhiannon Grant, another member of the think-tank, and I believe the ‘RPG’?, has to say about ‘God, words and us‘. (I have used a link which also gives some bonus items from her blog!)

Regional Conference in Bristol

  • Our Regional Conference in Bristol.
    The first of what we hope will be a new series of regional one-day conferences organised by NFN and hosted by local or area meetings took place at Bristol Redlands meeting house on Saturday October 28th. More than 50 Friends (with a variety of views) attended from Bristol and South-West England and were given a warm welcome by Celia Beeson on behalf of Redlands meeting. Hugh Rock from the NFN steering group chaired the two sessions which included small-group discussion and lively contributions from the floor.
    I introduced the theme, Nontheism among Friends: Its Place in our Religious Society, looking first at the many ways in which Quakerism has changed over the centuries, then opening a discussion on what the current dialogue on nontheism means for Quaker language and practice. After a tea break we looked at the work of the Quaker Faith and Practice Revision Preparation Group and its efforts to ensure that we all escape the trap of seeing theism and nontheism in simplistic, binary and polarised terms. United in our belief in an open, inclusive Society, we concluded with reflection in meeting for worship.
    The steering group is grateful to Redlands meeting for taking the initiative in inviting us, and publicising the event in the region. We hope other meetings in major Quaker centres such as York, Newcastle, Manchester and London will consider inviting us to join them in similar events.
    David Boulton
    Steering Group member

Godless for God’s Sake on Kindle

I’m not sure if everyone reads the comments (see below in right hand column) so I’m copying my comment on the Kindle edition as a post here:

It has taken me all of 7 weeks (49 days precisely) to notice James Riemermann’s post on the US Nontheist-Friends site of 6 September 2017 which has popped up at the top of the left-hand column here* – our feed from the US site – to say there is now a Kindle Edition of Godless for God’s Sake.
If you follow James’ links there, it comes up on Amazon UK at £4.64.
The links to ‘customers also bought’ there are quite interesting too!
I’d rather have the paper-back and not buy it from amazon but I suppose a Kindle version has to come from amazon so if you haven’t already read it or want it on your Kindle (or phone) there you go.
Trevor
*(at the bottom on a small mobile device!)