Tag Archives: Jesus

General Quaker interest, MfW+Creative Conversation, Non-theism

Reflections on Exploring stillness: Non-theist Quakerism and Meditation

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Reflections on Exploring stillness: Non-theist Quakerism and Meditation

(Note in the PDF of this post, hypertext links, which extend over 2 lines, break at the hyphen, so copy and paste them to make them work.) Read in conjunction with the the other PDF: Exploring stillness- Non-theist Quakerism and Meditation which was sent out in advance of the meeting.

We had a very interesting and well attended session for this topic on 4 January 2024.
I would like to set out some reflections and clarification and in particular to address David Boulton’s and Mary Pagurelias’s ‘trouble with God’ and challenge as to ‘What is the point of meditation (if you don’t believe in God)’.

Different forms of Meditation ( or Contemplation in the Western Christian tradition as John Senior explained) have been widely practised by different religious groups throughout the world for several thousand years – in Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Islam, Christianity and others.

Christian Meditation/Contemplation (or silent prayer/worship) began with the earliest Christians, especially those known as the ‘Desert Mothers and Fathers’ – hermits or anchorites who took Jesus at his word and went off into the desert (in the Middle East) in search of silence and to seek the ‘presence of God’ individually or in communities (monks and nuns) who often took vows of silence.

How does this relate to present day Meditation and non-theists (or ‘Christian Atheists’ for example)?
I tried to explain that despite identifying as a nontheist Quaker (and I don’t believe in God in any ordinarily understood meaning of that term), nonetheless I have found James Finley’s ‘Christian Meditation – Experiencing the Presence of God’ the best book on meditation of the many that I have read. Much of what Jim Finley says speaks to me clearly based on my own experience of meditation (TM) over nearly 50 years.

When Finley speaks of God, I can usually mentally delete the ‘of God’, ‘with God’ or whatever and as I don’t believe in the existence of God, to me it makes no difference to what Finley says. Clearly this would not be the case for a ‘theist’ who might conclude that I’m mistaken or crazy.

I have no ‘experience of the presence of God’ but believe that some people do have experience which THEY are happy to describe in those terms – where I would probably look for a psychological/physiological explanation. Neither in meditation (over 50 years) have I ever (yet) had an experience that I could imagine describing in that way. In this context I often reflect on David Parlett’s ’Theist cuckoo in the nontheist nest’:

and scroll down to the last recording for David’s talk.
https://nontheist-quakers.org.uk/events/new-nfn-monthly-meeting-for-worship-and-creative-conversation/
and scroll down to the last recording for David’s talk.

So even if some people meditate in order to draw closer to God, what is the point of it for a ‘non-believer’?

Meditation from the Eastern traditions (especially Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism and Sufism) was brought to the west by various ‘gurus’ (teachers) or ‘sheikhs’ over the last 150 years or so and especially since the 1950s perhaps most famously by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (born Mahesh Prasad Varma, 1918-2008 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharishi_Mahesh_Yogi) with a little help from the Beatles but also by ‘Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh’ (later known as ‘Osho’), Paramahansa Yogananda (1893 – 1952 – in the 1920s), the Hare Krishna movement (promoted by George Harrison) and others.

The practice of christian meditation (originally referred to as contemplation) is attributed to the Desert Fathers and Mothers (see above) and has been a practice of silence (including silent prayer) widely practised in monasteries and similar institutions mainly in the Catholic tradition. Contemporary Christian meditation practices (outside of the monasteries and abbeys) and silent prayer (including Centreing prayer) have been developed by, for example, the WCCM (World Community for Christian Meditation) (initially by John Main of Ealing Abbey and Laurence Freeman – https://wccm.org/about/) since the 1970s; The Centre for Action and Contemplation (CAC) in New Mexico led by Richard Rohr (https://cac.org/about/our-teachers/); Contemplative Outreach (https://www.contemplativeoutreach.org/history) and others.

As a result of these different traditions and their modern interpretations, it is now possible to join a meditation or silent prayer group online (or sometimes in person) at any time of day or night around the world – there are thousands of such groups from most religious traditions including many Christian ones. Perhaps Quakers are now a tiny minority amongst silent worship groups?

But to return to the question of what is the point of it for a ‘non-believer’?
TM ® (Transcendental meditation) (TM is a registered trade-mark!) was and is ‘sold’ in the west (for a fee) on the basis of ‘reducing stress, improving focus and clarity of mind, strengthening immunity and much more.’ The claims were and are claimed to be supported by scientific research, particularly of the effect of meditation on brain activity and rest (brain waves) https://uk.tm.org/benefits-of-meditation

The mantra meditation offered by the WCCM (World Community for Christian Meditation) – see above – is virtually identical and from the same source (Jyotir Math in north India) as TM so even if the intention is different, one might expect the results to be similar. (see https://wccm.org/people/john-main-osb/)

From my own experience I can say that meditation offers a similar level of ‘peace and quiet’ as Quaker meeting, but on a daily basis. Some people find TM and similar types of meditation (including WCCM Christian meditation and Centring Prayer or prayer of the heart) instantly transformative but that is not my experience.

For some people, and in some traditions, the purpose of meditation is to find ‘enlightenment’, union with God, or higher states of consciousness/awareness. George Fox wrote that he was raised into a state that Adam was in before his fall and from which he (George Fox) could also fall but then was raised into a higher state (that Christ was in?) and from which he could not fall. These sound like grandiose claims to be Christ-like or perfect but perhaps they are no more and no less than higher states of awareness. Whatever George Fox’s experience was, it seems he charismatically invited or persuaded others to carry out the same ‘experiment’ and know it for themselves. An experiment/experience which in the 17th century Fox and others would describe in Christian and godly terms. Rex Ambler has explored Fox’s experience through his writings (Journal and others) and from this developed the Experiment with Light meditations. From my limited experience of EwL (the introductory weekend course at Glenthorne and some follow-up courses) I do not think that EwL is comparable to the kind of meditation John Senior and I spoke about and referred to above but might be a useful psychological process for the purposes described by Rex Ambler and perhaps as a way to ‘clear the path’ in preparation for Meeting for Worship. (https://experiment-with-light.org.uk/meditations/)

I believe that both Quaker meeting (and silent prayer) and meditation lead to changes in awareness (or consciousness and perhaps conscience) which are beneficial to both the individual and the communities to which they belong.

As a nontheist, I also believe that God is optional – there is no point in emphatically denying God (I might be mistaken) and if others have experience which they are happy to describe in godly terms then I should respect that, even if I would suspect an alternative psychological explanation. Meditation (or contemplation/silent prayer) and perhaps chanting, ecstatic dance and trance practices I think very probably change brain function in ways which in the extreme may be likened to the effects of hallucinogens or other drugs. Meditation is often recommended for 20 minutes twice a day but on some extended courses or retreats it is possible that some might meditate for many hours a day and this might induce either ‘rapid progress’ or untoward effects.

Most ‘schools’ of meditation suggest that mind altering drugs (including alcohol and tobacco) should be avoided before and immediately after meditation. It is also usually recommended that meditators come out of their meditation slowly (for example by slowly opening the eyes) and perhaps lie down for 5 minutes afterwards or at least not jump up and start rushing about immediately. It is often further suggested that meditation can have unwelcome effects on individuals experiencing psychological difficulties and that if 20 minutes meditation proves unsettling, then perhaps to do it for only 5 or 10 minutes.

Despite all the ‘god-talk’ from some meditation groups, I think it is always possible to find a nontheist perspective. Jennifer Kavanagh in Quaker Quicks ‘Practical Mystics – Quaker Faith in Action’ writes (p9) “Underhill’s use of the word ‘Reality’ is significant. There are many who find the word ‘God’ uncomfortable. Mysticism can be found in people of all religions and none, from both inside and outside the framework of institutional religion.” and, on the same page, quotes Dorothee Soelle (Sölle); “It makes no difference – and this point has been confirmed by everyone who has ever reported on mystical experience – whether these experiences are interpreted with the aid of a personal God or nontheistically, as in oriental mysticism. Whether we see these experiences in terms of the Tao or of God is not central to them.”

Joanna Godfrey Wood in the Quaker Quicks ‘In Search of Stillness – Using a simple meditation to find inner peace’ offers the simple meditation I read out in our meeting on 4 January and writes: (p9) “But how can you find this stillness? It comes unbidden in flashes of awareness, though simply knowing about it and thinking about it is helpful. You start from a place of silence, which may not mean complete quiet, which is impossible, and move to a different place, where there is nothing.” Or, as John Senior put it “Nothing happens” (no, it just happens). Joanna also writes (p15) “A good place to start trying to find, develop or increase, the stillness in life is to go to a Quaker meeting. This is a place … where you can search freely for stillness within and find it individually and in community too, as a connected group. You will feel part of the group even if you do not know the people individually yet. It is the stillness that binds you and creates the group.” This seems to answer John’s question “Is meditation an acceptable practice for ‘Worship’?” in the affirmative, at least for Joanna.

John seems to find, in his quotations from Geoffrey Hubbard, Advices and Queries, James Nayler, George Fox and William Penn, the same kind of basis for a Quaker meditation as Rex Ambler claimed to find from his analysis of Fox’s writings. To know the difference between Experiment with Light and other forms of meditation (Contemplation), you would need to try them and judge for yourself.

Over the last couple of years, I have found sitting (online) in silent prayer with a mixed group of Anglicans, Methodists and others and joining a Centring Prayer Group (online) organised by Quaker Richard Eddlestone for Quakers every three weeks an instructive experience. There are many ways, places, methods and techniques to experience silence, stillness and meditation, and Quaker Meeting is not unique in this regard EXCEPT for the possibility of ’spoken ministry’.

John’s other question was “Is meditation distinguishable from ‘Worship’?” I think, even if you confine this to silent Quaker meetings, the answer is yes because there is more (and sometimes less) going on in a Quaker Meeting. We know from surveys and our own experience that Friends do many different things in meeting. We might be reflecting on scripture, our Christian roots or the teachings of Jesus (ie. ‘discursive meditation – see above), we might be sleeping, praying, reading, looking out the window, meditating (some do, at least some of the time), listening in silence or for or to spoken ministry, speaking ourselves (from wherever that might come) and certainly, at least some of the time, thinking. So this is much more open and varied than ‘merely’ meditating but it may also be ‘less than’ meditating if meditating is deep contemplation – perhaps experience of unity or non-duality. Perhaps the sense of a ‘gathered meeting’ arises when all or most feel themselves to be in the same place (of deep prayer or meditation?). Whether spoken ministry might flow from the gathered meeting, or instead through individuals at other times is perhaps a point to ponder.

Answering my own questions, I think ’Spirit’ is a feeling, impulse or ‘life force’ (uniquely human??) which, according to Jesus, we should not deny:
Jesus says, in effect, you may ‘blaspheme against the Son’ (and in one case ‘the Father’) but not against the Spirit; Mark 3:28-30 “28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.” (KJV); Luke 12:10 “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.”; and non-canonical Thomas logion 44 “Jesus said, “Whoever blasphemes the Father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes the Son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, neither on earth nor in heaven.” I’ve always taken these to mean that there is some ‘spirit’ behind everything which might be ‘the light of pure reason’ (Winstanley) or the life-force found in everything which is alive.

At very least, I take these sayings attributed to Jesus to mean there is something vitally important somewhere (in us, in each human being?) that we should not deny – perhaps what Quakers have often called ‘that of God in everyone’ or the Light (and many other terms) and we might choose to call the wholly (holy?) human spirit.

Try a search on the NFN website for ‘Jesus’ and you will find currently 23 links (24 when this is added) to various posts and articles between 2015 (or 1997) and 2023 including David Boulton’s ‘Faith of a Quaker humanist’ which has interesting humanist/nontheist references to Faith, Jesus, Worship, Prayer, Mysticism (including meditation) and Spirituality, the last quoting William Blake and “Thus men forgot that all deities reside in the human breast.”

Michael Wright (clerk of NFN for 3 years 2016-2018) wrote of Meeting for Worship: “There may also be times when we feel absolutely nothing and wonder if it has been a pointless exercise. It can be disheartening to have a succession of experiences like this. However, when something changes, either in our meeting or in ourselves and we experience something of the best that a Quaker gathered meeting can be, then we know we have ‘a pearl of great price’.” https://nontheist-quakers.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/jesus-today-book.pdf (page 29).

We might say something similar about Meditation. Sometimes, nothing happens. James Finley writes: (CM p219-220) “Sometimes our fatigue and distractions prevail. But no matter, for the more seasoned we become in this simple practice, the more we come to realize that, regardless of what we are experiencing at the moment, we can know and trust that nothing is missing in it. Our times of restless fatigue and our times of sublime rested alertness have an absolute and equal value. This awareness grants the peace that surpasses understanding. This peace is accompanied by a sense of quiet awe in realizing that our experience in the present moment, just as it is, is the fullness of God, one with us just as we are.” (and similar passages elsewhere in the book). Now, if I just delete ‘of God’ from this passage I am left with ‘fullness, one with us just as we are’. That sounds remarkably like the Upanishads which often enough manage without ‘God’.

I would sum up by saying that meditation is a useful practice for peace and rest and preparation for meeting and it is (in my opinion – and others see above) irrelevant whether you believe in god or indeed what you believe at all. Perhaps I could add to John’s various quotations, QF&P 20.11;

“Love silence, even in the mind… Much speaking, as much thinking, spends; and in many thoughts, as well as words, there is sin. True silence is the rest of the mind; and is to the spirit, what sleep is to the body, nourishment and refreshment.”

William Penn, 1699

Meditation may provide that ‘True silence’ and ‘rest of the mind’ on a regular (or daily) basis between weekly meetings for Worship. I hope that answers David’s and Mary’s question and would certainly recommend giving meditation a try.

General Quaker interest, NFN Events, Non-theism

Spirituality, mysticism, non-duality, and non-theism

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First a quick NFN news roundup.
On Thursday (2nd November) we had a most interesting presentation by Al Palmer of Saline, Michigan USA at our monthly Quaker Meeting and Creative Conversation. This has prompted this longer than usual post. About a dozen Friends from the USA were present (out of 64 in total) and a number of these attend or organise the NTF meetings in America which a few of us from the UK attend occasionally.

Nontheist Friends in North America (NTF) continue to meet regularly and details can be found through the google group; https://groups.google.com/g/nontheist-friends/
I believe the next meeting of NTF (after the Contemplative Sharing meeting at 4pm tomorrow 11 November) will be on Sunday 19th November at 7pm EDT so rather late for us at I think midnight GMT when Robin Alpern will present on ‘Do you consider yourself a pacifist?
Does nontheism have anything to do with your views on the peace testimony?’

The NTF meeting after that is December 5 which is the first Tuesday in December.
When it is hoped to talk about the the first four writings in ‘Godless for God’s Sake’.
This will be at 4pm Eastern Time so a little more convenient 9pm (please check!) in the UK.
I understand Robin Alpern, whose piece was the first of the four, and David Boulton as editor of ‘Godless for God’s Sake’, will likely be in attendance.

Our next NFN meeting will be on Thursday 7th December at 7pm (2pm USA Eastern) on ‘FOX AND US: What does the life and ministry of George Fox mean for a nontheist Friend?’
January’s (4th January) is still being finalised but may be a conversation about meditation and the practice of silence or stillness.

Reflecting on the State of Your Spirituality
Al Palmer’s presentation gave us much to reflect on.  David Boulton raised the question of ‘two types of nontheist Quaker’: those who are content to stick with poetic, metaphorical and non-literal interpretations of ‘old or traditional’ language (God and all the rest as metaphor and so on) and those who need ‘new language’ to say what they mean. (In the plenary session, it was Andrea Henley Heyn from the US who raised this question of old and new language and sensitivity around this and David later put it in terms of different kinds of non-theists.) I think we will have to refer again to ‘God, words and us’ to which David, Michael Wright and others contributed.
I think there is quite a broad range of nontheist views which does not just depend on language used. We can perhaps see a continuum from ‘no nonsense’ materialists or convinced atheists at one end (there ain’t no God’) to agnostics, universalists, ’I may be mistakens’, ‘still seekings’ and nontheist cuckoos ( not your usual conceptions of God) at the other.
At most, we all agree (I think) that there is no ‘old man in the sky with a long white beard’ as portrayed by William Blake (who didn’t believe in that kind of God either).
What to make though of other language and concepts like the divine, spirit, spirituality, mysticism, worship, prayer and so on.
In what follows, I’m going to include a number of links to articles in Wikipedia as an easy way to start looking at what others think or hold.
Some nontheists are uncomfortable with the word ‘divine’ for example, thinking that it implies a divinity (God) in which they do not believe. Others (non-theists) like myself are quite comfortable with that word as a loose term (perhaps thinking of chocolate) and even with the ‘divine presence’ – something like a ‘gathered meeting’ or ‘the sense of the meeting’ perhaps. When Georgina and I got married at our meeting in London, in our declaration (QF&P 16.52 – https://qfp.quaker.org.uk/passage/16-52/) we chose promising, ‘through divine assistance,’ rather than ‘with God’s help’.

Mysticism is another word uncomfortable for some nontheists, perhaps associating it with magic or something ‘supernatural’. For other nontheists it is simply an acceptance some things are a mystery (consciousness for example?), that we don’t (yet) know everything and that in any case there is more to life and our psychology or mind than the purely rational.
Wikipedia writes: “The term “mystical experience” has become synonymous with the terms “religious experience”, spiritual experience and sacred experience” in an article entitled ’Scholarly approaches to mysticism’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholarly_approaches_to_mysticism#Mystical_experience

‘Worship’ as a word to describe Meeting has its difficulties, not fully resolved perhaps by Advices and Queries 8&9 for example, which rely heavily on ‘God’. See what Michael Wright (our former clerk, who died a couple of years ago) said towards the end (p17 handout 2) of his talk on ‘Prayer beyond belief’ ten years ago; https://nontheist-quakers.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/prayer-beyond-belief.pdf (or under Articles on the website). See also what he had to say about Gretta Vosper and her approach to prayer further down the Articles page.

Spirit and spirituality seem to raise fewer problems for nontheists although some (incorrectly I think) tend to associate them with ‘spiritualism’, genies and the many spirits of older religions. Intriguing NT passages for me are when Jesus says, in effect, you may ‘blaspheme against the Son’ (and in one case ‘the Father’) but not against the Spirit; Mark 3:28-30  “28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.” (KJV); Luke 12:10 “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.”; and non-canonical Thomas logion 44 “Jesus said, “Whoever blasphemes the Father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes the Son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, neither on earth nor in heaven.”  I’ve always taken these to mean that there is some ‘spirit’ behind everything which might be ‘the light of pure reason’ (Winstanley) or the life-force found in everything which is alive.
Non-duality, related to meditation or contemplation ( see the talk on 4th January) was the subject of two talks by John Tissandier to the Quaker Universalist Group in April and May. But see the article in Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondualism

Let’s see what tomorrow brings.

General Quaker interest, MfW+Creative Conversation, NFN Events, Non-theism

MfW+Creative Conversation Thursday 4 May – Are Nontheist Quakers Humanists?

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Dear Friends,
We hope this finds you well.  Many thanks to John Richter for inspiring participants to reflect and share diverse perspectives during April’s Meeting.
Please join us for our next Quaker Meeting and Creative Conversation in May.
4 May QM+CC at 7PM BST/2PM EDT by Zoom, will introduce the concern, Are Nontheist Quakers Humanists? (A conversation between Friends).
For additional context and preparation, we encourage you to enjoy a talk delivered by Andrew Copson, executive director of Humanists UK (British Humanists Association), from NFN’s July 2021 conference, That’s the Spirit! – Dimensions of Spirituality.
You can also read David Boulton’s QUG pamphlet ‘The Faith of a Quaker Humanist‘.
General layout: 
• Zoom Room opens at 6:45PM UK time, please arrive early. 
• 7PM UK time: Welcome and Quaker Meeting (~20 minutes): Sharing silence with one another for quietly gathering ourselves and connecting. 
• Creative Conversation and Discussion (~1 hour): Different participants will introduce a thought provoking, occasionally debatable question, brief statement, and/or reading.  This will be followed by an inspired discussion amongst all participants for creative exchanges and opportunities to disagree.
• Conclusion: Thoughts and a few moments to share silence. 
• After Announcements the Zoom Room will remain open for friendly chats and community. 
• Duration:1hr:30m-2hr:00m Additional information about our QM+CC can be found on our website. If you are interested in attending and have not registered, please reply to this email.If you previously registered, there is no need to re-register, you are on the list.  You will automatically receive Zoom links to this and subsequent Meetings, approximately one week before each Meeting and a reminder the day of.  We ask that you please do not share the Zoom link with interested Friends, but encourage them to email the Clerk (clerk@nontheist-quakers.org.uk) to register. You may unregister/unsubscribe at any time by replying to this email address.In Friendship,
The QM+CC Working group (Gisela Creed, John Senior, William Purser, and Kiera Faber)
Nontheist Friends Network ALL are welcome to attend Nontheist Friends Network events regardless of Membership, beliefs, and/or religious affiliation. If you would like to support NFN and our endeavours, please consider renewing your membership, becoming a new member, or making a donation by filling out our Membership and Donations Form.  Thank you in advance for your generous support!
General Quaker interest, NFN Events, Non-theism

Something or other?

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Delightful post (today) from Chuck Fager about ‘Something’ (or whatever you call it):
https://afriendlyletter.com/renegade-quaker-theology-my-breaking-point-summer-2011/

‘We’ nontheists don’t agree with Chuck do we? You have to admire his Catholic leaning grim sense of humour (humor?) and fate though.

See you Thursday?

General Quaker interest, Non-theism

Quakers and nontheism

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Reflecting on Loulou Williams’ comment on our Nontheism page today, I thought it might be worth repeating the following extract from Paul Bates talk of 2013:

Nontheists tend to agree with the liberal understanding of Jesus of Nazareth as a teacher from antiquity who taught a very human sort of religion based on love, tolerance, forgiveness and peace. The doctrines of incarnation, resurrection and ascension are seen as attempts by the early church to raise the human Jesus to the level of a mythical God.

The nontheist sees the work of the Holy Spirit in the human heart more in terms of the spontaneous, natural inner working of the human psyche in which we meditate upon and respond to life as we presently experience it. The nontheist sees God in terms of ‘an inner light’ that is found in every human being. It is ‘that of God in everyone’.

The nontheist sees this life as the only life we will ever experience and is focussed on the living ofthis life to the full, now, and in accordance with those human principles that make for happiness and dignity for all.

Conferences, General Quaker interest, NFN Events, Non-theism, Publications

Quaker ‘Advices and Queries’ for Nontheists.

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Quaker ‘Advices and Queries’ for Nontheists.
A ‘thought for the day’ from Trevor Bending, member of NFN Steering Group and NFN website editor.
(Most of the hypertext links in this piece do NOT open in a new tab or window. Therefore use the browser back button to return to this page).

I thought very carefully about the title of this post and decided it would be ‘Advices and Queries’ (from Quakers) for all (including nontheists) expressed as above. ‘All’ approaching nearly 8 billion of us and counting.

After 370 years there are about 377,557 Quakers in the world (less than 0.016% of all Christians), most of them in (more or less) Evangelical Friends’ Churches or ‘programmed’ meetings in Africa and the Americas. Of the world total about 21,500 are members of or attending ‘unprogrammed’ (often largely silent 1 hour) meetings for worship in Britain (excluding Ireland where there may be another 2000). There are 129 followers of this NFN website whilst our number of paid-up members of the Network for this year to date are too embarrassingly few to mention. So, what can we say?

The NFN Steering Group (SG) have previously discussed a ‘nontheist’ version of Advices and Queries prepared by an ‘old Friend’ and member of NFN which manages to remove the word ‘God’ altogether. But it was decided that we would not want to be seen (mistakenly) as ‘proselytising’ for ‘nontheism’ (which we are not) and that for this and other reasons (including ‘something missing’ – traditional language or God perhaps?) we would not wish to publish that document, interesting though it is.

A Friend, Stephen Feltham, has asked ‘Why have Quakers stopped referring to God’ and more generally laments the loss of spirituality amongst Friends or its submergence by political and social activism, losing God. (But see QF&P 20.14).

Seeking to hear where Stephen’s words come from, his heartfelt plea certainly strikes a chord with this ‘nontheist’ (whatever ‘nontheist’ might mean). But it is not the intent of NFN to remove God (either in person or the ‘Word’) or religion or spirituality from the Religious Society of Friends. In fact our conference next year is to be titled ‘That’s the Spirit! – Dimensions of spirituality’ and is now planned to take place at Friends’ House, Euston, from 28-29 March 2020.

Stephen’s last paragraph in the piece above reads:
‘Is it fair to question if we are really justified in calling ourselves a religious society anymore? Have we become so politically ‘on message’ with justice, equality, inclusivity, diversity, the planet and gender issues that we have no more time for the love of God and so we may just as well call ourselves a social activist association?’

On the home page of the Quaker Spirit website, under the heading ‘A clarification – Quaker Spirit is for all’, Stephen writes ‘ALL are welcome. We want to develop our spirituality and avoid great busyness.’

I think it would be fair to comment that many, especially younger, Friends may feel that ‘activism’ for justice, equality, inclusivity etc. by Quakers is dependent on spirituality and not separate from it. Whereas our A&Q 28 advises ‘Attend to what love requires of you, which may not be great busyness’ it is clear that this is in the context of advancing age and the need to ‘relinquish responsibilities’ (and make way for others?) and not a recommendation to ‘avoid great busyness’ altogether. Indeed, early Friends (at least in the 17th century) were hugely concerned with ‘with justice, equality, inclusivity, diversity, the planet and gender issues’ (the latter in consideration of the role of women in ministry and in (the) society). It was only later in the late 18th and early 19th centuries that Friends in Britain became ‘quietist’ and somewhat inward looking (not in the best sense of that term).

In the 21st century, Friends in Britain have become more outward looking again (as they have perhaps been for the last 150 years) and social (including political) concerns and activism have again come to the fore.  At the same time there has been an increasing concern for ‘re-kindling’ and ‘vibrancy’ in meetings which certainly depends on developing greater spiritual ‘inwardness’.

In a previous post and in response to a piece by Neil Morgan in The Friend of 9 August, a member of the NFN Steering Group writes:

I am a member of the Network who does actually believe in God. But what I believe in is not the existence of God but the presence of God, and for me that difference is vital. …. cont.: .. I feel that to speak of God as ‘existing’ is to categorise God as part of the universe, bound by space and time, whereas the presence of God is not an objective reality but a subjective human experience. People may claim they don’t see God as a bearded old man in the sky, yet many still speak as if they do. If God ‘exists’ anywhere, it is in the human heart, not ‘out there’. A literal belief in the externally ‘real’ existence of God seems dangerous and demeaning. The NFN provides me with a respectful and non-judgmental forum enabling me to explore my theology more thoroughly than in most other areas of Quaker life.

(for the full response and many others from members of NFN on Discernment see here).

Elsewhere on Quaker Spirit, in Squeezing out the Spirit, Stephen writes: ‘I am inexorably being driven to resigning altogether from Quakers one of whose fasting growing special interest groups does not, it seems to me, believe in God!’

I wrote in response on the site’s Forum: I would like to re-assure you that NFN is not fast growing! (I think we have about 100 members at most and a conference attendance – not all members – of 40-50.) As to not believing in God, some do, some don’t. One of our Steering Group believes in the ‘presence of God’ but not in the ‘existence of God’. (see above). Others have varied beliefs’.

I’m a little doubtful though, whether Stephen would want to add NFN to his list of other Quaker groups, but then consider some of the points made above and that in a sense NFN ‘budded off’ from the Quaker Universalist Group, itself regarded somewhat askance by many Friends when it first formed some 40 years ago.

Perhaps then we can agree on inclusivity and in the future join together in celebrating, and practising, Quaker spirituality.

Meanwhile, we can turn to Young Friends for a new take on Advices and Queries.

In ‘Living our beliefs’ a book which deserves to be much better known, produced by Young Quakers in 2015, edited by Graham Ralph, young Friends have made a book that ‘tackles similar topics to Quaker Faith and Practice but .. (is) .. shorter, more accessible and more concise.’

An online version of this book (pdf) and a range of videos and music tracks and talks associated with it can be found at http://www.yqspace.org.uk/living-our-beliefs One of the 17 or so chapters is ‘Advices and queries as compiled by young Quakers’ (p79-81) created at junior yearly meeting in 2015.

This version reduces 42 Advices and Queries (some 12 pages) to 42 simple statements (2 pages). One breathtaking example is A&Q4 which is reduced to just 4 words ‘Remember our Christian heritage’, compared with the original – 73 words with 5 references to Jesus and two to God.

These 42 contain one reference to (the word) God compared to some 37 in the original. The one reference to God is in A&Q 17 (original 117 words, 2 references to God) which becomes:

‘Everyone thinks of God differently; don’t be judgemental’.

(The original ends with ‘Think it possible that you may be mistaken’.)

Another view, by Laurence Hall, can be found in the Young Quaker, Sketches of a Godless Quakerism (to read online pages 8-9).

What all this boils down to is that it is not whether you believe in the existence of God, or the presence of God, or not but what kind of God, what do you mean by ‘God’, what do you mean by belief. In the end it is all words (theology? Or ‘windy notions’ as early Friends might have called them) and it is our practice, both spiritually and actively, that counts.

If Christianity (and perhaps Judaism?) can be reduced to Jesus’ (fictional??) story of the ‘Good Samaritan – now go and do likewise’ then these ‘simplifications’ (of complex issues) by young Quakers might serve us well.

**

I (Trevor) became convinced this morning that whilst ‘Quakerism’ (Quaker meeting for worship, Quaker Faith and Practice) might not be for everyone, it is right for me and is ‘the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth’ – but this Truth includes uncertainty and mystery and not knowing what we don’t know and I can’t impose it on anyone else and I must ‘think it possible that I may be mistaken’ although I must accept that others may try to impose their Truth on me.

** innocuous paragraph and link removed at the request of an offended Friend.

General Quaker interest, Publications

Book review of Michael Wright’s ‘Jesus today – a Quaker perspective’

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Book review: Michael Wright’s  ‘Jesus today – a Quaker perspective’
by David Parlett (extracted from our forthcoming NFN Newsletter)

Isn’t it remarkable how some of the best books on Jesus are written by former clerks of the Nontheist Friends Network? (David Boulton’s Who on Earth was Jesus?, published in 2008, became – and maybe still is – a standard text book in some RC seminaries following the enthusiastic recommendation of Henry Wansbrough, general editor of the New Jerusalem Bible.)

Now Michael Wright has published Jesus Today – a Quaker Perspective, to add to the collection. Michael was an Anglican priest for 40 years before leaving ordained ministry and becoming a Quaker, so he knows whereof he speaks. Furthermore, his knowledge is up to date: while most of his quotations are from the bible and Quaker Faith and Practice, he also draws on valuable material from such writers as John Spong, Karen Armstrong and Marcus Borg. ‘What I am seeking to share with those who read this’, he explains, ‘is a fresh appreciation of Jesus, his life and teaching, which is not trapped in the mindset of the past’. He regrets that ‘Few [Quakers] refer to Jesus or the gospels in meeting for worship. Mention of him can even be unwelcome to some. I hope now to stimulate an interest in the significance of his teaching from which we can draw inspiration for our values and practice today… There is a significant contrast between Jesus’ original teaching and behaviour and the authoritative doctrines and orthodoxies later developed and then imposed by the institutional churches. Quakers have largely either challenged or sidelined these since the foundations of our movement in the 17th century.’

If Chapter 3, devoted to ‘some elements of the Quaker way’, will serve well for newcomers and enquirers who find some of our language and attitudes unusual and perhaps baffling, chapter 4, ‘A Quaker approach to the bible’ is essential reading for many of us who think we know it well enough already. ‘Quakers share the biblical narrative with other Christians, and we value the scriptures without taking everything at face value. We pay attention to the spirit who gave the scriptures, rather than abiding by the letter of them.’ (This is almost word-for-word Robert Barclay). ‘Our approach to the scriptures is distinctive and not widely understood, even among Quakers’. Rather than adopt creeds, he adds: ‘The early Quakers […] delved into the scriptures and drew from them inspiration to shape their lives in the circumstances of their own time. This we can do in our day. Our Quaker testimony to truth and to integrity, to equality and justice, to peace, to simplicity and sustainability, all spring from gospel principles which Jesus taught’.

Michael then looks at the four gospels, using an image that particularly appeals to me. As a former journalist, he likens the style of Mark to The Daily Mirror, Matthew to The Daily Telegraph, Luke to The Guardian, and John to The Sunday Times as it used to be.

Chapter 6, ‘Revising our understanding of the Jesus story’, precedes ‘Some Quaker Responses to Jesus’, in which we are reminded of George Fox’s central experience of discovering Jesus within himself and of the impact of the Quaker message in English life when first shared publicly. But the scene in Britain today is very different from the 1640s: ‘Then Christian religious practice and teaching was the shared experience of just about everybody, although there were lots of disagreements between different groups about what should be taught and practised. Today Christian congregations are clearly a minority, in which the distinctive Quaker voice is a minority within a minority’.  David Parlett

Michael Wright’s Jesus Today – a Quaker Perspective is published by Sixth Element Publishing, 2019 (ISBN 978191221857-8). Michael has very kindly allowed us to add it our website at: https://nontheist-quakers.org.uk/2019/07/23/jesus-today-book/ (182 pages pdf), but if you would like a nice printed copy try Friends House Bookshop.

General Quaker interest, Non-theism, Publications

Jesus Today Book

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Michael Wright (Teesdale and Cleveland AM) who stepped down from our Steering Group after 3 years as clerk in 2018 has now published his short book on his understanding of Jesus today.

He has very kindly allowed us to add it the website here (6.5Mb): Jesus Today Book, (182 pages pdf)
Sadly, Michael died in 2021 but left a detailed programme for his Quaker funeral which was streamed as it happened).
Update 27 April 2022 _ I have added a pdf extracted Appendix with Michael’s references so you can open both side by side and refer from the text to the references without having to scroll back and forth over 175 pages (both open in new tabs but easier if you download both):
Jesus Today References (13 pages pdf 1.7Mb)

But, if you would like a nice printed copy
JESUS Today cover (1 page pdf 840Kb)
it is available as Michael says here:
I am hoping that Friends House bookshop will stock it, but with being away have not been able to speak to the manager, which I shall aim to do tomorrow if he is available. I will let you know. I have also asked if Simon Best will have it on sale or return at Woodbrooke, but am awaiting a response on that.

It is available from any bookshop or online by ordering it, as the publishers (Sixth Edition) supply it to major book wholesale distributers Bartrams, and Gardners. The RRP is £9.99 but print copies can also be obtained from me for £7.00 plus £1.20 postage – £8.20. It is available free as an ebook from various sources:
www.smashwords.com/books/view/941749
https://books.apple.com/us/book/jesus-today/id1468252120
www.kobo.com/ww/en/ebook/jesus-today-2
www.barnesandnoble.com/w/jesus-today-michael-wright/1131793879
www.amazon.co.uk/Jesus-Today-Perspective-Michael-Wright-ebook/dp/B07T16SDG6

I understand it will be reviewed in the near future in the PCN magazine Progressive Voices, The Friend, and Quaker Universalist.

I hope this is helpful, but do come back to me with any further queries. Best wishes, and many thanks. Michael

Thank-you Michael. Other short articles by Michael are also available here on the website under ‘Articles’.

The book is a very interesting read on one of the many ways in which, for example, nontheist quakers might view Jesus today so a very apt title for us. For a fuller review of the book by David Parlett see here.